RE: [xep-support] Another Arabic problem (diacritics)

From: Reynolds-Gregg <Reynolds-Gregg@norc.org>
Date: Fri Jun 27 2008 - 07:23:47 PDT

The smart thing to do is write a stylesheet to print a sample for each font on your system. Create a small stylesheet and embed a fully vowelled line line of Arabic once, as literal text in an fo:block element, for each arabic font on your system. Or better, wite the stylesheet to dynamically assign fonts. Run it and you will see how XEP gets along with your fonts.

-----Original Message-----
From: owner-xep-support@renderx.com [mailto:owner-xep-support@renderx.com] On Behalf Of Krister Wicksell
Sent: Friday, June 27, 2008 3:14 AM
To: xep-support@renderx.com
Subject: Re: [xep-support] Another Arabic problem (diacritics)

Hi Peter,

And thanks for your reply. Can you please give me the name of some fonts that you think are good for rendering Arabic text.

Best Regards
Krister Wicksell

Zert AB
Hamngatan 7
S-921 31 Lycksele
Sweden
Tel. +46 (0)950 132 30
Mobile +46 (0)70 380 86 84
Fax. +46 (0)950 262 30
http://www.zert.se/

On Friday 27 June 2008 09:48:28 Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> I think the solution suggested by Reynolds-Gregg is the one you should
> be looking into. You essentially reposition the diacritic waw (and any
> other diacritics giving you grief, so that it overlays the prvious
> character. This solution is better then mine, I would think.
>
> And then there is the actual font you use - Arial is pretty good as it
> deals with many scripts _reasonably_ competently but there are a huge
> number of much better specific Arabic fonts. Have you experimented
> with some of those?
>
> If you after all want/need to edit fonts, I did use fontforge, but I
> had to only shift a few glyphs about. For merging several bits into
> one custom glyph - you might have to look further. I do not know.
>
> Peter
>
> Krister Wicksell wrote:
> > Hi Peter,
> >
> > And thanks for your suggestions! However I want the source of the
> > Arabic text to be correct both the glyphs and linguistic order. This
> > is because the same text may be used for producing other publications not using XEP.
> > I use Arial as font.
> >
> > Here http://www.zert.se/temp/diacritics.pdf you can download a PDF
> > showing how the text should be rendered.
> >
> > So if I now need to modify the font, which sound as a complicated
> > solution, does anyone have any suggestions on a software to use?
> >
> > Best Regards
> > Krister Wicksell
> >
> > Zert AB
> > Hamngatan 7
> > S-921 31 Lycksele
> > Sweden
> > Tel. +46 (0)950 132 30
> > Mobile +46 (0)70 380 86 84
> > Fax. +46 (0)950 262 30
> > http://www.zert.se/
> >
> > On Wednesday 18 June 2008 16:55:39 Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> >> Krister Wicksell wrote:
> >>> Hi Peter,
> >>>
> >>> I do not know Arabic but my translator says the words are splitted
> >>> and I think he mean the little diacritic waw is supposed to be
> >>> above the Yeh and not as a separate char.
> >>
> >> That is what I thought.
> >>
> >>> I have asked my translator for a picture of the correct rendering
> >>> and will post that to this list as soon as I get it.
> >>
> >> That would be good.
> >>
> >>> I have also tried different fonts and also in Windows since i use
> >>> Linux. But all my tests give the same result, a splitted word.
> >>>
> >>> I have found another old post talking about diacritics:
> >>> http://services.renderx.com/lists/xep-support/1812.html
> >>> In this post it is suggested to use special characters. For
> >>> example for
> >>> alef+hamza one should use &#x623. But I can not find any special
> >>> character for this combination.
> >>
> >> I did the same search on your behalf and came to the same conclusion.
> >>
> >> A while back I had a problem with XEP not dealing with Farsi
> >> numbers correctly - it ordered them RtoL instead of LtoR. The
> >> solution I found then was create a custom font where my text had
> >> Latin script numbers (correctly handled by XEP) and superimpose in
> >> the font onto the Latin script numbers Farsi glyphs.
> >>
> >> Taking this further would mean to me that you could use unused
> >> parts of unicode (which exist for such purposes) and put customised
> >> glyphs in your font on those places, bypassing in this way the
> >> rendering/glyph shaping attempts by XEP.
> >>
> >> This would be an ugly hack and probably very tedious if it applied
> >> to more than a few glyphs, but it should work fine. The numbering
> >> worked for me.
> >>
> >> That aside I would then also raise this again with renderx as a
> >> potential bug/lack of feature. I am surprised that there are no
> >> responses from them on this thread. They ar enormally very good
> >> helping out. And I am also surprised that EMR who gave me such an
> >> ugly flame has not produced anything productive.
> >>
> >> Peter
> >>
> >>> Best Regards
> >>> Krister Wicksell
> >>>
> >>> Zert AB
> >>> Hamngatan 7
> >>> S-921 31 Lycksele
> >>> Sweden
> >>> Tel. +46 (0)950 132 30
> >>> Mobile +46 (0)70 380 86 84
> >>> Fax. +46 (0)950 262 30
> >>> http://www.zert.se/
> >>>
> >>> On Monday 16 June 2008 17:00:41 Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> >>>> Hi Krister,
> >>>>
> >>>> Reading the private flame EMR had sent me, I thought you had your
> >>>> solution dry and sorted.
> >>>>
> >>>> I do not speak Arabic (I speak Farsi) , so I am not sure what the
> >>>> exact desired outcome should look like.
> >>>>
> >>>> Is the Yeh in teh framed word meant to be separate as in the
> >>>> OpenOffice document or is it meant to be joined as attempted but
> >>>> not succeeded in XEP?
> >>>>
> >>>> Further the little diacritic waw is presumably supposed to be
> >>>> above the Yeh - and not as in the OOo example smashed into the
> >>>> diacritic double point of the Qaf?
> >>>>
> >>>> Peter
> >>>>
> >>>> Krister Wicksell wrote:
> >>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>
> >>>>> I have still no solution to my problem so if anyone has a
> >>>>> solution please post it to the list.
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Best Regards
> >>>>> Krister Wicksell
> >>>>>
> >>>>> Zert AB
> >>>>> Hamngatan 7
> >>>>> S-921 31 Lycksele
> >>>>> Sweden
> >>>>> Tel. +46 (0)950 132 30
> >>>>> Mobile +46 (0)70 380 86 84
> >>>>> Fax. +46 (0)950 262 30
> >>>>> http://www.zert.se/
> >>>>>
> >>>>> On Friday 13 June 2008 15:22:05 Peter von Kaehne wrote:
> >>>>>> EMR,
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I struggle to understand your outrage.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I commented on the documented output of both programmes and
> >>>>>> said they are both wrong. Which they are - irrespective of
> >>>>>> whether this is a programme or an input fault. Both examples
> >>>>>> look a mess. That is a factual and neutral statement. There is
> >>>>>> no need to flame or shoot off private outraged emails.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> If the solution lies in different input - as it seemd to be
> >>>>>> with the percentage sign - then it would be extremely useful to
> >>>>>> have this exposed and explained on the mailing list rather than
> >>>>>> in - what has happened apparently - in private emails.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> I find XEP wonderful but also totally daunting and I had my own
> >>>>>> share of problems along similar lines - glyph shaping, number
> >>>>>> ordering etc. I am learning from the mailing list even if I do
> >>>>>> not write a lot. Glyph shaping though is an interest of mine.
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> Peter
> >>>>>>
> >>>>>> EM Rosie wrote:
> >>>>>>> Peter -
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> XEP didnt produce a mess.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Ask Krister how she corrected her XML data and you will see
> >>>>>>> that XEP correctly performed what asked to do.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> I'm surprised you would acuse a product when it seems you know
> >>>>>>> anything about the subject.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> EMR
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> -----Original Message-----
> >>>>>>> From: owner-xep-support@renderx.com
> >>>>>>> [mailto:owner-xep-support@renderx.com] On Behalf Of Peter von
> >>>>>>> Kaehne Sent: Thursday, June 12, 2008 12:00 PM
> >>>>>>> To: xep-support@renderx.com; krister.wicksell@zert.se
> >>>>>>> Subject: Re: [xep-support] Another Arabic problem (diacritics)
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Krister Wicksell wrote:
> >>>>>>>> Hi,
> >>>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> When trying to create Arabic PDF:s I have found another problem.
> >>>>>>>> Almost
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> all
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> Arabic words having diacritics like "", " ", etc. look splitted.
> >>>>>>>> See
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> attached
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>>> example.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> actually neither of two examples look right. Open Office has
> >>>>>>> not done any glyphshaping and XEP produced a mess too.
> >>>>>>>
> >>>>>>> Peter
> >>>>>>> ----------------------------------------------------------
> >>>>>>>
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Received on Fri Jun 27 08:01:27 2008

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