Re[5]: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows

Date: Wed May 05 2004 - 07:28:58 PDT

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    Hello William,

    I agree with Alexander.

    The intent of widow and orphan control is to prevent the last line of a
    paragraph appearing at the top of a page (a widow) or the first line of a
    paragraph appearing at the end of a page (an orphan). The presumption is
    that it is a multi-line paragraph. It is also more-or-less an aesthetic
    consideration. Keep-with-next (or previous) is generally more important:
    you really don't want a figure title to be on a different page than the
    figure, or a section heading to be separated from the section contents.

    Furthemore, you (usually) don't care if a figure title is an orphan or a
    section heading is a widow.

    This is speaking from what I would hope the specifications would produce,
    rather than a knowledge of what they actually say.

    Regards, Doug x2571

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    Alexander Peshkov <>
    Sent by:
    05/05/2004 14:05
    Please respond to xep-support
            To: "Schroeder, William" <>
            Subject: Re[4]: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows

    Hello William,

    First of all I would like to note that XSL-FO specification is not very
    explicit when describing scope of orphans/widows. It refers to
    "number of line-areas in the first/last area generated by the formatting
    but it is not clear that is the first area in this context.

    We believe that first area produced by formatting object do not
    include line areas produced by its descendants, that's why in your
    first example below XEP can break page after section title.
    In the situations like yours it is natural to use
    on the section title block instead of 'orphans'.

    The same is for the second example - you expect that all line areas
    generated by descendants of the topmost block will be taken into
    account then its 'widows' property interpreted. Note however that
    orphans/widows properties are inheritable and if your interpretation
    will be used you won't have any breaks unless one of the nested blocks
    is 7 lines long (orphans="2" (default) and widows="5").
    Again, there is a simpler way to achieve desired effect - just set
    keep-together.within-page="always" keep-with-pevious.within-page="always"
    on the signature table instead of using 'widows'.

    I believe both examples mentioned in your letter are typical usecases
    for keep properties rather then for orphans/widows.

    Best regards,
    Alexander Peshkov

    --- snip ---
    >> >> -----Original Message-----
    >> >> From: Schroeder, William []
    >> >> Sent: 29 April 2004 15:46
    >> >> To: ''
    >> >> Subject: [xep-support] Orphans & Widows
    >> >>
    >> >>
    >> >> I'm a newbie xep-support subscriber and I'm trying to get widows &
    >> orphans
    >> >> attributes working. I have created a report with signature lines at
    >> the
    >> >> end. Each signature line takes 3 rows, 1 for spacing, 1 for the
    >> and
    >> >> 1
    >> >> for the name under the line. The first signature line occurs at the
    >> >> bottom
    >> >> of a page with the rest on the next page. The fo is essentially a
    >> >> containing a 2 column table with an empty table-header and a
    >> >> containing the signature lines. I reason that by setting the
    >> >> attribute to something greater than 3 that this should force the
    >> >> signature line to the next page with the others. I have not been
    >> to
    >> >> get the signature line to budge. I have tried numerous combinations
    >> >> permutations of orphans & widows at the level of the fo:block,
    >> fo:table,
    >> >> and
    >> >> fo:table-body but nothing seems to work. Any ideas?
    >> >>
    >> >> Bill Schroeder
    >> >>
    >> >> -------------------

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